Once Upon A Time In China Blu-Ray, Just got it Options

[James Lee]

Markgway;

Have you actually seen the new BD release of OUATIC ?

So many people base their opinions on stuff they haven't even seen or heard. As I have mentioned several times the new release has it's shortcomings (like many BD releases do), but it looks great compared to any dvd release (the HKL release has shitty picture and wrong colours).

As for the HD master not being used. Have you solid proof that it was not used ? Or is your so important opinion based on screenshots ? I can tell you that I have seen HD movies (from HD masters) look far worse than OUATIC.
Having actually seen the new BD release I was impressed with the detail and colours. You can actually see what is going on in the background (always an issue with dvd) and the colours are much deeper than the dvd release. The dvd is very "muddy" compared to the new BD release. It's like night and day when watching scenes back to back.

Anyway, I will take the advice that a friend once gave me (Don't write on forums. It takes two minutes to write something but you will spend the next two weeks defending what you wrote) and "call it the day". I have stated my opinions as far as the new BD release goes.

Don't take it hard. You just have to understand that Hong Kong films on DVD is never as simple as it should be, and some of us are very wary of buying dvds without knowing all the ins and outs. There's just too much sloppy work going on with these films sadly, something that rarely seems to affect other genres and countries output.

[Markgway]

Obviously I've not seen the OUATIC BD as that would be wasting money. Yes, I've seen screencaps, and that coupled with the assertion that it's SD-based is enough reason not to buy. I've no reason not to trust Shingster's opinion given that he actually works in the industry. I have the IVL DVD and a 1080p upscalling DVD - so why would I buy a BD to get virtually the same effect? I want proper HD quality. To say the BD better than the HKL is like saying shit is better than dung. So what? I'm sorry if you're offended but if you post technical reviews such as yours then you need to expect to be challenged on them.

Just look at these:
http://www.asianblurayguide.com/news/434/o...na_screenshots/

This post has been edited by Markgway: Nov 8 2009, 10:35 PM

[NetDragon]

I'd rather say that those who cannot spot the bad quality are the "blessed" ones Like the pal-speed up audio issue, I have some friends who honestly cannot spot the difference between ntsc-speed and pal-speed sound hehe, to them it sounds the same somehow..and I tend to say to them: You lucky bastards! Hehe.

I do think that the companies listen to their customers sometimes..hey didnt we get the Project A movies with original mono sound and deleted scenes a while ago.. How about the pissing drinking scenes of Bullet in the Head. So keep it up guys, dont buy if you dont feel the quality is up to your standard. I would certainly not buy this OUATIC blu-ray, but I honestly wouldn't mind owning a downloaded ripped version of the movie Yeah you read it correctly, in such an attempt to fraud us customers, I think their blu-ray should deserve to be ripped and spread free online! But I do not support piracy in general, just to have that said

[Liersi]

Markgway;

Have you actually seen the new BD release of OUATIC ?

So many people base their opinions on stuff they haven't even seen or heard. As I have mentioned several times the new release has it's shortcomings (like many BD releases do), but it looks great compared to any dvd release (the HKL release has shitty picture and wrong colours).

As for the HD master not being used. Have you solid proof that it was not used ? Or is your so important opinion based on screenshots ? I can tell you that I have seen HD movies (from HD masters) look far worse than OUATIC.
Having actually seen the new BD release I was impressed with the detail and colours. You can actually see what is going on in the background (always an issue with dvd) and the colours are much deeper than the dvd release. The dvd is very "muddy" compared to the new BD release. It's like night and day when watching scenes back to back.

Anyway, I will take the advice that a friend once gave me (Don't write on forums. It takes two minutes to write something but you will spend the next two weeks defending what you wrote) and "call it the day". I have stated my opinions as far as the new BD release goes.

I'm not Mark, but I have seen the BD and echo his statement verbatim. No one is challenging your opinion, just the information. And that's important, people read public forums for consumer advice, to them it's not about Mark's or your opinion, or mine. You know the saying about opinions and assholes. Facts are more important, and in HD land the fact that it's not actual HD is a big one. People all have their reasons and preferences for upgrading to HD, and it's a much more opinionated process this time around; they own the DVDs already or could buy them cheap. These BDs must offer a very compelling reason to spend that much more.

Not trying to lecture or educate you, but to explain the mindet and make it clear no one's after you. Happens to all of us with the new format, we get corrected by people in the industry who just know more, hence why I said they need to educate us. Your review and enthusiasm are greatly appreciated man.

[yokoono]

Those screenshots show a horrifically grain raped image. It's completely devoid of detail and looks nothing like something that was sourced from a 35mm print.

[jhm]

its been years you are all (mostly 3 guys on a forum used by maybe 10 regular users) crying, whinning and does that have change anything ? NO what make you think suddenly hk studio will start to listen to you ?

Buying their crappy product certainly won't make then listen. If lack of sales won't make them listen, then nothing will. Boycotting the disc seems like the logical thing to do in these cases. In this particular case, "crying" or "whining" seems perfectly appropriate. Companies trying to pawn off a non HD source as HD is lazy at best, sleazy at worst.

[The Running Man]

If lack of sales won't make them listen, then nothing will. Boycotting the disc seems like the logical thing to do in these cases. In this particular case, "crying" or "whining" seems perfectly appropriate.

Boycotting isn't enough because if sales aren't good then a company can simply believe that the particular film is not wanted by the public and not come to the conclusion it has anything to do with the quality of the disc itself.

It's also worthless to cry and whine on an online forum about it.

Someone needs to get contact information and post it here and in other places to flood them with polite and observant emails to these companies explaining in detail what the problems are with the discs. Then you can increase the oppertunity for change.

On a side note, I want to also point out how further useless that DVD Beaver review is (then again, when are DVD Beaver reviews ever completely useful anyway). The comparison is between the HKL DVD and the HK Blu Ray. This is worthless (and one could argue perhaps even biased) because the HKL image was already bested by the HK DVD release of the Fortune Star print. It would have to take a really, really, really bad Blu Ray release to be worse than the HKL DVD especially since both the HK and Blu Ray videos are derived from the same source.

Therefore, if a comparison were to be limited to only two DVDs then logically it should be the DVD and Blu Ray releases of the Fortune Star print.

This post has been edited by The Running Man: Nov 11 2009, 06:49 PM

[RickyTheDragonSt...]

You can't base your opinions purely on screenshots. Based on those screens alone, it already looks better than any other dvd on the market. The IVL dvd was a piece of crap so this clearly isn't a direct upscale. But the bluray skips out on the mono so it's an automatic pass.

[Liersi]

You can't base your opinions purely on screenshots.

None of the more vocal detractors are. It's an academical argument, the only issue is compression or otherwise improper capture. Experience confirms this.

It's not an upscale from the DVD. The contention is that it's taken from an SD master and not real HD. If you enjoy it, don't let anyone tell you different. We're not hunting for truth here, just solid information.

[The Running Man]

The Spectrum release will probably be progressive, whilst IVL will have mono - a draw between those two (they both annihilate HKL's image-wise). HKL will have the best subtitles for the first two films (Part 3 contains a slightly dodgy set).

I'm curious to know how the export version on Columbia's disc looks of Part 1. It probably won't look as clean as Fortune Star's master, but the levels might be better?

Actually, IVL's subs for the Once Upon A Time In China movies used HKL's subs. They are a bit better than HKL's subs though because the editors at Fortune Star noticed the completely inane move that HKL did with their subs in that they kept changing Rosamund Kwan's character's name on each film. So FS stuck with one name for all three. And also, I believe there was a part that wasn't subbed on HKL subs in part 2 that was subbed on the IVL subs.

As far as the colors for part 1, your intuition is right. While the Fortune Star prints beat the HKL DVDs, the international print for the first movie on Columbia's DVD seems to have better colors. What gives it away is the fact that the wires are so blatantly obvious on the FS print. They didn't have CG back then so they depending on specific lighting to do the cover up. However, if you blast up the contrast for example you are going to see what wasn't meant to. However, I don't think this is the case for 2 and 3 and from memory I'd say the FS prints beat the color levels the international prints on the Columbia DVDs.

This is a very similar situation as the crap Dragon Dynasty release of Tai Chi Master. The picture, among other things, had totally incorrect colors and what made this obvious was how easily the wires could be seen. Depending on which previous print you saw, some can be seen or none. But with Dragon Dynasty's almost every single one can be seen and it was clear it wasn't supposed to be that way. I am shocked that the people at Dragon Dynasty in charge of the picture let the product go through like that. Then again, considering their many other blunders, it's their M.O.

This post has been edited by The Running Man: Nov 13 2009, 02:35 PM

[Markgway]

The IVL dvd was a piece of crap

Clearly that's a gross exaggeration. The IVL disc is the best overall of the DVD presentations. So if it's crap then I don't know what you'd say about the Columbia and HKL efforts...

A cursory look at those BD screenshots shows a complete lack of detail. It's like looking at plastic people. You don't need to be an expert (I'm not) to notice this.

[The Running Man]

A cursory look at those BD screenshots shows a complete lack of detail. It's like looking at plastic people. You don't need to be an expert (I'm not) to notice this.

You know, this seems to be a common problem that has been creeping up on many Blu Ray releases. Even major Hollywood studio DVDs have had the "plastic" look to people on their Blu Ray releases which is evidence of way too much DNR being applied.

I wonder why this has been sweeping all around Blu Ray. Perhaps a misguided attempt to make older movies look more digital like newer films?

[chen lung]

It's like Botox .

[ICE angel]

Perhaps a misguided attempt to make older movies look more digital like newer films?

Bingo - and one of the main reasons why I shit on blu-ray from high above to begin with.

We had some unwarranted artificial enhancement with the worst examples of the DVD format, but that was just the beginning. Blu-ray skips any compromise or intermediate level of comfort and takes the vandalism and destruction of classic film to a whole new level.

I also can't help but feel it as irony that people are complaining about this particular blu-ray release because it lacks detail, whereas the average blu-ray simply goes the opposite extreme and adds artificial noise and grain to the image to make it look more detailed than its film source ever was, or needs to be - both with upconversions and pure HD. The frequent use of artificial coloring that has nothing to do with the original film cinematography doesn't help in making blu-ray any less odious.

A mediocre handling of a mediocre format for what are mediocre times, nothing more.

This post has been edited by ICE angel: Nov 15 2009, 01:15 PM

[Markgway]

Disagree with Ice Angel. All of the BDs I own look better than their DVD counterparts. Yes, there are avoidable imperfections. That goes for any format, alas. But the genuine duds are thankfully few and far between. There's a gulf between what K&R are putting out and most Hollywood product. It's not that OUATIC has less detail thanks to DNR, it's that it has no detail thanks to not being HD in the first place.

[zee944]

Bingo - and one of the main reasons why I shit on blu-ray from high above to begin with.

Let me guess: you're the one who posted that stupid YouTube video about how much Blu-ray sucks.

It's alright if you stick to DVDs because you don't want to spend all your money for worthless things like buying the same movies over and over again, I perfectly understand that, but this sort of hypocritical rant just makes me sick. No need to make up things and bespatter Blu-ray. Just don't buy it.

This post has been edited by zee944: Nov 15 2009, 05:42 PM

[RickyTheDragonSt...]

Clearly that's a gross exaggeration. The IVL disc is the best overall of the DVD presentations. So if it's crap then I don't know what you'd say about the Columbia and HKL efforts...

The Columbia dvd is the absolute worst piece of shit I've ever seen. But it featured a much clearer mono track and decent subtitles. Still, that doesn't make it worth owning. The IVL dvd is definitely an upgrade visually, but it is possibly THE worst sounding dvd I've ever watched.